After being hired as senior vice president of human resources at Capital Group in 1998, Andrea Gill had to go on maternity leave just five days into her new role, but Capital assured her “We are a long-term focused company.” 25 years later and having risen to Capital’s chief human resources officer, it’s an alignment of values between Gill and the organization that has helped shape her career. In this episode of People and Strategy, Gill joins host Tony Lee to discuss the maturing of inclusion, equity & diversity initiatives, the case for a measured approach to AI, and remote work.
After being hired as senior vice president of human resources at Capital Group in 1998, Andrea Gill had to go on maternity leave just five days into her new role, but Capital assured her “We are a long-term focused company.” 25 years later and having risen to Capital’s chief human resources officer, it’s an alignment of values between Gill and the organization that has helped shape her career. In this episode of People and Strategy, Gill joins host Tony Lee to discuss the maturing of inclusion, equity & diversity initiatives, the case for a measured approach to AI, and remote work.
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Tony Lee:
Welcome to today's People and Strategy podcast. I'm Tony Lee, Vice President of Content for the Society for Human Resource Management and the SHRM Executive Network, which is the premier network of executives and thought leaders in the field of human resources. I'm excited to speak today with Andrea Gill, Chief Human Resources Officer at Capital Group in Los Angeles. After launching her career as a management consultant at Ernst & Young, she joined Capital Group where she's risen through the ranks to her current role. Andrea, welcome to the People and Strategy podcast.
Andrea Gill:
Thank you so much, Tony. It's really an honor to be here. I'm a big fan of SHRM, so I couldn't be happier to spend a few minutes with you.
Tony Lee:
Well, thank you. We're very pleased you could join us. So I want to take you back to 25 years ago when you first interviewed at Capital Group, when you were eight months pregnant with twin boys. And then after being hired, you left on maternity leave, only four days in your new role. How did that happen?
Andrea Gill:
Yeah, it's a crazy story. So I went to business school here in Los Angeles at UCLA and I went to Ernst & Young as a management consultant. I loved consulting, I loved the fast pace, new environments. Every new assignment was a puzzle to figure out. And I was on an assignment at Capital Group and we were implementing a new HRIS. I was leading the change management work stream. And I'd been on the project for about six months. This is a little embarrassing, but I'm going to be totally honest with you. I didn't know Capital Group that well. I liked the people, a friend of mine from business school had been working here. And about six months into the work, the leader of HR walked up to me and said, "Hey, would you want to consider coming here full-time?" Well, that morning, honestly, I found out I was pregnant. And the truth is I didn't want to travel anymore. That was the number one motivating factor. I couldn't see raising those kids, just having that airplane lifestyle that consultants need to embrace.
So I said, "I'm interested, but I honestly just found out I'm pregnant." And no truer words have ever been said, she said, "We are a long-term focused company. So we take a while to hire here. We interview for a long time. We really want to get to know those candidates, and we want the candidates to get to know us." So I'm about four months into the interview process and I find out I'm having twins. And I come in and I say, "Hey, I'm still very interested, but I need to let you know I'm having twins." And then again she said, "We are a long-term focused company." So by the time I was actually hired and started, I was eight months, four weeks pregnant with those twins, worked about five days, went and had those twins.
And then actually three years later, I had a baby girl and I took another pregnancy leave. And at the end of that pregnancy leave, I thought, you know what? I don't think I can do it. I don't think I can manage a career and have these three little babies as much as I loved Capital. And I actually gave notice. And then six months later, my daughter was six months old, the head of human resources called me and she said, "We understand what you're going through. Three little kids, it's a lot. We want to work with you. We'd love to talk to you about coming back. We want to support you through this time of child raising." And I'll never forget that moment. It stuck with me. I was a person who wasn't just a widget, I had a name, she demonstrated care, flexibility. And I've always tried to pay that forward. So that is what happened 25 years ago.
Tony Lee:
That's an amazing story. And I'm sure employees that you have, have they had the same experience that you've carried that forward to other employees who've gone through pregnancy and leave, right?
Andrea Gill:
Yeah. We are an organization, again, focused on the long-term. And that means we're not running a sprint, we're running marathons. And I'm a big believer, and I tell this with everyone I have the honor of working with, there are going to be moments in your career where the career gets the most of you. And then there's going to be other moments that it's your kids, it's your parents, it's your partner, it's your community. You're going to need to over-index on, I'm giving them more a little time and attention, and that's okay. That's okay. That's what we do. We support the whole person, the whole employee.
Tony Lee:
Well, that's great. And what a perfect segue to inclusivity. I mean, you have a personal interest in creating an inclusive workplace. But as all of us have been talking about diversity, equity and inclusion seems to have taken a step back at many companies of late. How has that impacted your efforts at Capital Group?
Andrea Gill:
Yes, it's a great question. Reading about diversity, equity and inclusion in the news today can be a little painful. And what I tell everyone here is diversity, equity and inclusion is alive and well at Capital. Do I say perfect? No. Because we all know this. Advancing DEI, look, it's a journey and we're never going to get there. It's never going to be perfect. But is it alive? Yes. And that media focus, DEI is dead or under attack. I really put that in the bucket of noise and I tell everyone, "Do not get distracted about that."
What we have done in this space the last year, which I think is healthy, it really shows the maturing of DEI is we've shifted from education, Big Bang programs, to integration. How do you weave DEI into our day-to-day practices? Hiring, promotions, succession planning. But now more than ever, in a world that is so polarizing, and polarizing in a nasty way, is to really index on the inclusion piece of DEI. And I know this is in the bucket of cheesiness. But really creating that sense of belonging, psychological safety. Every employee here needs to feel safe to express their thoughts, speak up with ideas. That's the only way we're going to get better. That's how we generate the best work, make sure employees feel great about the environment. So again, it's alive, it's well, we're making progress. We're transparent around our DEI efforts internally, externally. We talk about our wins and where we can get better. And I'm just excited about the future.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Okay. Well, it sounds like a very strong program. Now, of course, everything in HR is interconnected. So let's take one step further and talk about remote work, in-office work, hybrid work. There are some folks who say inclusivity means allowing people to work however they need to. If they've got elder care or childcare, maybe that means they need to work remotely. Yet you have a lot of senior leaders who are saying, "I don't believe my workforce is productive, I don't believe they're innovative if they're not sitting together." So what's your take there?
Andrea Gill:
Yes. Boy, this has been a tough one. I'm not going to say this has been an easy road for us. But I learned a lot. And thankfully, I think we're in a really good place right now. So we introduced some levels of flexibility pre-COVID. We had many business areas that allowed their employees to work from home two days a week. But look, it wasn't embraced, leaders really frowned when they saw people working from home. So I wouldn't say it was something we felt proud to really communicate. And then of course, COVID hit, coupled with the racial equity crisis. And it was a period where we were forced, in a healthy way, to prioritize our employees' wellbeing, our employees' families. I'm very proud of how we supported our employees during that time. And we learned a lot about how productive and effective our employees can be at home.
And we, like so many other companies, realized how critically important it is to spend physical time together. And I truly believe this, it's not about pleasing our senior leaders. It's about creating a culture where we deliver the very best outcomes. Acclimating new hires, mentoring early career talent, those accidental collisions. You run into a peer in the cafe and it sparks an idea. The trust that comes from having social time together. That just doesn't happen on a Zoom call. So we landed on where I think a lot of the world is today, three days in the office, two days work from home. We also have a lot of other wonderful flexibility benefits. But look, it was a tough transition, and I get it. If you had two, three years where you were able to pick up your kids every day at the bus or spend time with your parents coming in three days a week, that really felt like a loss.
So what I learned is in this moment of transitioning to this hybrid model is listen, listen, listen to your employees. Give them so many forums to discuss what's top of mind and keep reinforcing the why. We have a super compelling mission here. And the culture, a thriving, dynamic culture is key to us delivering. So keep reinforcing why we owe it to our clients to deliver the very best outcomes. And that means we need time together. So I would never want to live through another global pandemic as a chief human resources officer, but I learned a lot. I learned a lot about leading and listening and I'm actually quite proud of our hybrid approach today.
Tony Lee:
Okay. So it sounds like you're comfortable with the level of productivity from employees because of that. And certainly the humanistic side of people being together makes sense. So let's pivot to the newest trend, which is a dehumanizing one, artificial intelligence. So how are you embracing it? Are you embracing it? How are you keeping employees up to speed with what's going on with AI and helping them figure out how to be their best selves while leveraging that technology?
Andrea Gill:
Yeah. So look, I think about gen AI, I get super excited and I'm very prudent. I have learned that no good comes from moving too quickly. So we have a large team that's piloting about 80 use cases. It's a cross-functional team, legal, HR, IT operations. We're piloting different ways of using it in HR, in investments, in marketing. And we're going to take our time, we're not going to move too quickly. But look, is it exciting from an HR perspective to think about a technology that really helps us take voluminous amounts of data and analyze it quickly so we can help all our leaders, all associates here, make more effective, better decisions? That's a game changer. I'm super excited about that. And look, in HR, I think productivity is the magic word. Once we get comfortable with this new technology, it will be able to take over some transactional tasks and free up capacity and let us focus on higher strategic work. So I'm excited.
I think when I talk about gen AI internally, the headline is, thoughtful pacing. We're not going to move too fast here. It's too nascent, there's too much risk about moving too quickly. So I'm confident we're pacing it appropriately. We will weave it into our organization. And look, I think with all technology, the most important thing is don't be afraid of it. Technology should not feel threatening. Think about this as a way to make our lives more productive, more strategic, more effective. And what I tell everyone is, "Play with gen AI every day." I use our internal ChatGPT, I forced myself, and now it's fun. I go in, I try something different every week, so I'm comfortable. And that's what I would tell everybody to do.
Tony Lee:
And what are you hearing from employees? I mean, are you hearing employees say, "I want even more ability to do more." Or are you hearing them say, "Help me."
Andrea Gill:
That's an excellent question. I think it's pretty divided. I think many say, "Give us the tool right now. I understand how this is going to help me be more productive." And then I think there are pockets of employees, I'm sorry, we call all our employees here, associates. So if you hear me say associate, I'm referring to our employees here. We have pockets who are scared of it, who are scared about what it means for the long-term work that they do. Will they need to learn completely new skills? Will their jobs change? So right now, we listen. My job is to help everyone embrace it in a way that feels healthy and doesn't introduce angst into the environment. So we have a lot of open forums. We talk about it. We show a lot of pilots. We help people understand and feel the productivity gains. And we're going very slowly. So I don't ignore the concern. I get it. I want people to tell me why they're concerned and let's talk about it and think about what the next step is.
Tony Lee:
Okay. So prospective candidate or prospective new hires, what are you hearing them ask? And are they asking about AI? Are they asking about how Capital Group leverages it? What are the topics that you're hearing coming in?
Andrea Gill:
That's a good one. Boy, have candidates become more sophisticated in the last few years. Historically, we used to only get asked about benefits or compensation, my direct manager. And now candidates just are much more discerning. They ask about gen AI. I think the top two things I hear from candidates all the time. Number one, "I want to make an impact." Number two, "I want to be developed." And that comes from early career candidates, long-term, senior hires. And that's where I spend a lot of time. Because coming to an organization and making an impact to me is the number one selling point that anyone in HR, not just the recruiter, any manager, can really help the candidate understand. So here at Capital, what we do is we really think about our mission, which is a compelling mission, improving people's lives through successful investing.
We have 66 million investors that trust us with their money. That's a big responsibility, helping those millions of investors realize their dreams, buy a house, put their kids in college, have a dignified retirement. So my job is to help every employee here, no matter what you do, answer the phones, work in the mail room, work in HR, ops, feel part of that mission. That's a big one. The second one is development. Candidates, some want a very prescriptive roadmap for development and I can't give them that. But what I do make sure candidates understand is our prioritization of development. That like every company, our strategy starts and ends with people. We don't make widgets here. Employees are our most valuable assets. So that means we have to prioritize their development. We have very low attrition. We hover around 6%, 7%. We want our associates to grow with us.
So we talk about career conversations four times a year. We talk about best in class leadership programs. Lots of experiential assignments, mentoring. I'll just share one stat, and I don't want to just go through a laundry list of stats. But 20% of our employees last year had some type of role change. They were promoted, they had a rotation, they had an expansion. So you can feel the development all throughout the organization. So top two things. We do hear about gen AI. I think what trumps that is I want to make an impact at the company, in my community, and I want to be developed.
Tony Lee:
That makes sense. So when you're advising some of these folks, perhaps after you've hired them and they're early on in their career, I mean, you spent essentially your entire career at one company. Is that the advice you would give them?
Andrea Gill:
That is a great question, Tony. I have never got that question before. So kudos to you. If you had told me 25 years ago, I would be at the same company, I would've laughed so hard, I would've cried. I mean, I still can't believe it. So there is no hard and fast rule. That, for sure. Of course, some level of stability is important. I don't like to see a resume where a candidate jumps every year for 20 years. But for the most part, when I interview, I don't care if you've been at two companies or six companies, what I want to see is someone who's curious, who seeks opportunities for growth, who doesn't let their skills become stale. And look, one thing I tell candidates all the time, "Make sure your values align with the company's values." So if you find an organization where you really believe in the mission, you feel like you're making an impact, you're growing, developing, and your values really line up with the company's culture, I mean, that's winning the lottery. And that's what happened to me. That's a gift. I don't think you need to leave.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, makes sense. Not for everyone, but perfect for you, of course. Now, something else you mentioned was that you had earned an MBA before you started your career.
Andrea Gill:
Yeah.
Tony Lee:
What is the value of an advanced degree? Would you recommend that folks do that before they embark on a career or should they rely on tuition reimbursement? Or is it just not as necessary as it was 25 years ago?
Andrea Gill:
Yeah, it's a good question. Again, no hard and fast rule. I definitely don't think it's necessary. My undergrad, I went to Cal, I went to UC Berkeley, I majored in sociology and religion. So for me, the business school curriculum, accounting, econ, negotiations, that was extremely helpful. And you touched on this, when I got my MBA, there was a much bigger delta between what you got from an undergrad education, from what you got from business school. We have a real robust early career hiring program. We have a lot of undergrads we bring right to Capital. They come in with very strong analytical skillsets. So I don't see that difference so much anymore. So I don't care if you have a graduate degree. What I do think is mandatory is just being a constant learner.
And we're so lucky today, we have such access to great content. So I tell everyone, "Read, listen to podcasts like this one, develop your technical skills." Anyone, no matter what level, can drive their own development. And for an HR leader, and I know we have an HR audience, is really learning the skills that help you balance your head and your heart. That's what I always say to my team. You have to be super comfortable with data today. Really comfortable with using data to drive insights, drive the strategy of the company. And you need heart. The name of our function is human resources. Human is in the name for a reason. So the best HR leaders I know and have the privilege to work with, really know how to drive the people strategy hard and lead with empathy and genuine care. So I don't care about the graduate degree. What I care about is someone who's learning and developing, and in HR specifically, really balancing the EQ with the hard data skills.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Well, that is wonderful advice, Andrea. Thank you so much. And thank you for joining us and sharing your expertise with us today. We really appreciate it.
Andrea Gill:
Well, it's been my pleasure, Tony.
Tony Lee:
All right. Thanks. So for listeners out there, you can follow the People and Strategy podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you can learn more about the SHRM Executive Network at shrm.org/executive. Also, listener reviews have a real impact on a podcast's visibility. So if you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to leave a review and help others find the show. Finally, you can find all of our episodes on our website at shrm.org/podcasts. Thanks for listening and have a great day.