Following a career that began with an HR generalist role at IBM, Calvin Crosslin now serves as both Chief Diversity Officer at Lenovo and President of the Lenovo Foundation. In his role, Crosslin drives the corporate vision, goals, strategies, and performance metrics for Lenovo's Global Diversity and Inclusion Office, which supports more than 63,000 employees from 60 countries around the world. In this episode of People and Strategy, host Tony Lee speaks with Crosslin on topics including the transformative power of diversity initiatives, measuring the ROI of diversity training programs, and the importance of personalized approaches to understand and drive both employee retention and engagement.
Following a career that began with an HR generalist role at IBM, Calvin Crosslin now serves as both Chief Diversity Officer at Lenovo and President of the Lenovo Foundation. In his role, Crosslin drives the corporate vision, goals, strategies, and performance metrics for Lenovo's Global Diversity and Inclusion Office, which supports more than 63,000 employees from 60 countries around the world.
In this episode of People and Strategy, host Tony Lee speaks with Crosslin on topics including the transformative power of diversity initiatives, measuring the ROI of diversity training programs, and the importance of personalized approaches to understand and drive both employee retention and engagement.
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Tony Lee:
Welcome to today's People and Strategy Podcast. I'm Tony Lee, Vice President of Content for the Society for Human Resource Management, and the SHRM Executive Network, which is the premier network of executives and thought leaders in the field of human resources.
I'm excited to speak today with Calvin Crosslin, Chief Diversity Officer at Lenovo, as well as president of the Lenovo Foundation. Calvin is responsible for driving the corporate vision, goals, strategies, and performance metrics for Lenovo's Global Diversity and Inclusion office, which supports more than 63,000 employees from 60 countries around the world.
Calvin has spent his career in a variety of roles with Lenovo and IBM before that, rising up from his start as an HR Generalist. Calvin, welcome to the People and Strategy podcast.
Calvin Crosslin:
Thank you, Tony. I'm excited to be here.
Tony Lee:
Well, thanks. So diversity has have really kind of taken a hit lately. I mean, many workplace diversity initiatives are struggling after a period of great focus and investment. So how do you see diversity efforts evolving from this point?
Calvin Crosslin:
Yeah, Tony, I think you're absolutely right. I think we know that both from some well thought of publications that we've seen, articles certainly in talking to our peers across various industries, that is in fact the case. So what I think is going to happen going forward is post George Floyd's murder, a lot of organizations put in inaugural CDOs. They put in infrastructure resources dollars to support D&I efforts internally and externally. And I've seen a big commitment here lately. So what I think we're going to see going forward is organizations that continue to drive this work are committed to it. It's part of their corporate culture, it's part of the fabric and the DNA of who they are.
Tony Lee:
But there are differences that you need to distinguish between, I believe. I mean, we see a lot of diversity training efforts that focus on culture versus those that focus on racial differences. Do you see any strategies there for why those are separated?
Calvin Crosslin:
I think you can do both, honestly. I mean, in Lenovo, we 70,000 employees across 180 markets. So clearly we have to be focused on culture and inclusive behaviors, and we have an internal module that we use to reinforce that. What do inclusive behaviors look like, definitions, examples, and how you grow those behaviors. I think that's incredibly important when you're in a global organization.
I also think or know that there are certain geographies, the US being one of them that have their unique challenges around things like race. And so I think in those instances, you have to have programs that address historically excluded talent.
Tony Lee:
And it seems one of the knocks that has kind of emerged about diversity training is the question of where's the ROI. I mean, how do we measure the success of a diversity training program? Is that a problem that needs to be solved or does it need to be measured?
Calvin Crosslin:
Well, I think it should be measured, but there's various ways, right? There's qualitative and there's quantitative measures for everything that we do. And I think, again, we've got some pre-world recognized institutions and publications that have demonstrated that there are returns on investment in terms of market share, in terms of innovation. And so I think that there's a number of key indicators that this is important work. I know for a fact that if you don't think about some of these things during the design phase of a product or a program, that when it's inevitably happens if you don't have diverse teams and the diverse thought is you get the product launch and realize that you perhaps made tremendous mistakes and now have to hold off on a project launch.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. So let's dig a little bit deeper. I mean, one of the aspects of diversity training that diversity experts many seem to rally around is mentoring and creating a mentoring program to help ensure inclusion as well as help make sure younger employees are advancing. So, Cal, do you then agree with many diversity experts who say that mentoring is the best way to both ensure inclusion and help younger employees advance?
Calvin Crosslin:
I think it's a great way, and I think also what's important is sponsorship. I have benefited myself personally from both. I think mentorship from a standpoint of, and this could be fairly controversial, I am not a big fan of formal mentor programs that partner people together because I think there's an organic relationship that develops that matching based on resumes or algorithms can't necessarily do. So I think what I like to see is when we teach people to be good mentors and we teach people to be good mentees. So what do I mean by that? There's a lot of senior leaders oftentimes that are good at giving advice and not always as great at pausing and listening to what a person really wants out of their career, out of their life.
And so I think teaching people to be more like an executive coach in terms of really listening and then enabling the person to guide and direct their career. And similarly, as a mentee, understanding that it is up to you to own your career, finding the right mentor for you, having the right initial conversation, engaging from that conversation, is there a chemistry where you continue to have that relationship and build and nurture that relationship over time? And secondly, like I said, I think sponsorship is incredibly important because you really need someone to advocate for you and your career, somebody that feels a personal responsibility for your growth, your development, and your progression. And so I think sponsorship and having people that advocate for you when you're not in the room is incredibly important when we talk about career development and career progression.
Tony Lee:
It makes great sense and it makes it more of a two-way street. But you're dealing with some egos here too. I mean, how do you get senior leaders to sit down and be trained in how to be a better mentor, how to be a better sponsor if they're not really inclined to do that typically?
Calvin Crosslin:
I think that's where we come in as HR professionals. I think one of the things that we are responsible for regardless, particularly as generalists fight, are being coaches to our executives. And so I think helping our executives understand that sometimes, not that they're not the best at it, but there's no issue, so to speak, with learning to be better at certain things, particularly things that you want to be good at. I think most of our leaders understand their responsibility to grow the next generation of leaders, but sometimes that's often not the case. And so helping some of our executives or leaders understand their responsibility to grow the next generation of talent and understand that there are best practices in doing so, I think is a consultative thing that we can do as HR professionals.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, that makes great sense. All right, let's pivot a little bit. So improving employee retention and engagement is a key concern everywhere. Can you share some tactics that have worked especially well for you to keep employees engaged and retained?
Calvin Crosslin:
Yeah, we employ stay interviews here. We all know about the exit interview where people can be forthright and forthcoming on some systems and some areas they're like, well, I'm gone anyway, so I'm just going to tell them it's around compensation or something of that nature. So I think when you think about standard views or proactive retention, it is a conversation around compensation factors and non-compensation factors.
So first and foremost, you have to make sure people are paid market rate, and then next, you have to find out what are the things that really motivate that person beyond just compensation. Could be key projects, could be career progression, could be more technical roles. I know of many situations where some leaders are not necessarily motivated by what you do for them specifically, but what types of tools you give them to help their team. And that might be giving them the right resources to get the work done that they envision getting done, whether it's a project or whether it's a program that they're driving. So I think you have to treat it as a very unique discussion with each of your employees.
Tony Lee:
What role does workplace flexibility play? I mean, that's sometimes as even more important than anything else for some employees.
Calvin Crosslin:
Huge. I often joke that this is not that complicated of a challenge. When you hear people say things like, I get to work from home today, or I get to work from remote today, or I have to go in the office, it kind of gives you a clear indication of some preferences. But I think one of the things that you can do to balance that, particularly in hybrid environment, is you give people a workplace that is truly collaborative and when it's most beneficial and when it's most productive for them to be face-to-face and collaborative, there's a facility or place to do that, space to do that. And when they have a need to be remote to work on things where they don't and can't be interrupted, need to be more focused or, let's face it, there's no such thing as work-life balance anymore. It's really is work-life integration.
So example, we're a global company. I work from probably 6AM to 9PM most days. Somewhere in there have to figure out when I'm going to eat, when I'm going to make it to the gym, when I'm going to spend time with my kids. And so you have to figure out how to do that. And so I think offering people flexibility and giving our leaders the ability to help navigate that with their employees is the way to try to accomplish that hybrid or that flexible model.
Tony Lee:
So one of the challenges I don't have to tell you with return to the office mandates from a lot of companies are employees who have that kind of need for a flexible schedule, child care issues, elder care issues, whatever it may be. So do you not have firm policies? Do you encourage every manager to have different policies for different employees? How do you attack that?
Calvin Crosslin:
We have guidance at geographic and business unit levels, and as you know, there are certain roles that require you to be in an office and there are certain roles that don't, right? I mean, if you're in the engineering in the lab, you probably need to be physically on site for both the equipment and the collaboration with your peers. If you're in sales, I probably don't want you in the office. I want you out in the field with your customers. So I think you have to have the flexibility with your leaders. You have to treat your employees as the adults that they are and have open conversations and dialogue about what makes most sense for your organization.
Tony Lee:
And how much of that is incumbent on training people, managers to be able to work with employees who are facing these kinds of challenges?
Calvin Crosslin:
Oh, tremendous, tremendous. I think we ask an incredible amount out of our leaders, the days of a leader or manager simply managing people are over their doers as well as managers or leaders. And so I think enabling and empowering people to have the right conversations is incredibly important.
Tony Lee:
A real trend we saw in 2023 and now in 2024, is generative AI really starting to get used in the workplace, especially by HR. So can you talk a little bit about how AI is being incorporated into what you guys are doing on the HR side?
Calvin Crosslin:
Yeah, I'm happy to. Funny enough, this is a very timely question. I had a roundtable with a number of new employees that I have not had the opportunity to meet with in the last year. And so one of the generalists was having a, I won't call it a complaint, but some frustration around some of the job posts that they've seen that have been very, very open-ended, I'm not really sure what you're trying to go look for in terms of a candidate. And one of our more seasoned talent acquisition professionals said that he uses AI to do that. So you get the manager on the phone and you obviously vet the opening to make sure it's real first and foremost, and then all of the questions we ask around salary and band and level and things like that.
And then you get into the job description and he said, just from a few keywords, you can put that into an AI application and it'll spit out a very nice job description as well-written grammar, punctuation, spelling, something that would've taken him an hour to do with a manager, one-on-one is probably now a 10-minute activity. So I think that's an area where you'll see an increase in productivity.
Tony Lee:
And from there, I mean, are there more opportunities to integrate AI into the HR function?
Calvin Crosslin:
Oh, absolutely. I think everything from our hiring processes to predictive analytics around attrition. We had a HRS leader that went on to a different company a few years ago, but he had done something years ago where he did some predictive analytics beyond compensation, why do people leave? And it's funny, as we've moved forward a couple years here, a lot of the indicators have come true that why people leave, and it's not always compensation. So I think certainly on the three major levers that we have are hiring, retention, and then development and promotion. And I think having predictive analytics around those things can definitely help the HR community.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, no, it makes sense. So you're in a unique situation. I mean, you've got many years of experience, but really at two organizations, Lenovo and IBM, which are separate companies, but closely related. So would you advise other HR professionals who are looking for a C-suite position to climb the ladder at their current company rather than jumping ship to advance their careers?
Calvin Crosslin:
Again, probably a controversial answer, but I would say, as I say, not as I do. I have been incredibly fortunate to work for the two companies I have worked for that it really invest in you as a professional. And I've been very, very fortunate to be surrounded with people over my career back to the topic of mentorship and sponsorship who've seen more in me than perhaps I've seen in myself and helped me make my way both laterally and hierarchically to build T-shaped skills and build a depth and breadth of skills as well.
And so I've been very fortunate, but honestly, I would say if I were doing this over again, I would probably not just jump companies, but I would jump industries because I think you just ... It's such a rich experience when if you're in healthcare at one point, if you're in IT, you're in the financial sector. So I am a fan of people taking opportunity and stretch assignments, and sometimes that means moving around company and it means moving around industry.
Tony Lee:
And there are some very senior-level HR people who will say, take a few years, get a few years of experience outside of HR. What's your thought there?
Calvin Crosslin:
Absolutely, 100%, particularly if that's a background you have. I'm a marketing major, and so there's been times that I've had roles that lended themselves to that marketing background. They were less about HR and more about branding and more about, well, frankly, actually, some part of the chief diversity officer role I'm in today, and certainly the foundation role I'm in, branding is a big piece of that. And so I absolutely am a fan of going outside of HR and getting the real experience in a line or other corporate function.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, makes sense. And if you were advising someone who's a fairly new grad who's getting started, would you say HR generalists, the route that you take is the way to go? Or is it better to get some specialties work in comp work in training, whatever it might be, as opposed to being a generalist?
Calvin Crosslin:
I think it's both. And I think you have to start with the end in mind. So if you want to be a CHRO, you're going to have to rotate through a number of the centers of excellence of compensation and benefits and things of that nature. If you're just want to support a senior leader in a business unit, perhaps, then you could be an HR generalist or partner for most of your career. So I think you have to start with the end in mind. And I thought I would some point wanted to be a CHRO. And one of the things I probably would've done differently is I started debating on whether or not I take those things that I wasn't necessarily going to be good at and which struggle perhaps more than others. So example, I probably should have done compensation much earlier in my career.
I decided to go do something fun, which was talent acquisition, and I never did make it through that compensation rotation. Now, obviously, being a generalist for as long as I have, I've touched enough comp and executive comp to be dangerous, but if I had it all over to do again, I would've probably rotated through compensation first and then started rotating through those other areas like leadership development and OB that I found me more fun, but probably lended themselves to my talents to be easier for me.
But I definitely think that moving through specialty areas, and you certainly have to, I think, have to have a role as a generalist or partner because you have to have that client experience, the client insight, really understand what the business is trying to accomplish, and how does HR play a role in that.
Tony Lee:
I got to say, I love that you consider talent acquisition to be fun.
Calvin Crosslin:
Our TA leader will tell you, I dabble enough to be dangerous and probably make her life miserable with my brilliant ideas that she's probably already executing on.
Tony Lee:
That's great. Well, we're almost out of time, but I've got to ask you to pull out your crystal ball and look ahead over the next 12, 24 months. What are the issues that HR at the senior level needs to be aware of, needs to be concerned about, maybe keeping you up at night, but maybe not, maybe they're just things that you know are important you got to be thinking about?
Calvin Crosslin:
Human capital management. I think the same thing, and maybe this lends itself more to the IT industry than some others. We just talked about my career, that's where I've been. The rapid change and pace of the industry of technology, how do you keep the best skilled individuals on your team? How with all of the workload do you continue to upskill people so that they are able to work on the latest, greatest technology. So I think it's changed. That's one of the number one things we've had to navigate in the IT industry for a long time.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Well, that's great. Well, Cal, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today. We really appreciate it. And to all the listeners, you can follow the People and Strategy podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts, and you can learn more about the SHRM Executive Network at shrm.org/executive.
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