John Ferguson, SHRM-CP, is both a motorsports fan and the CHRO at NASCAR. In this episode of People and Strategy, he joins host Tony Lee to reflect on the intersection between NASCAR’s 75th anniversary as a sport, and his “always forward” approach to talent acquisition and retention by expanding employee representation and development at the organization.
John Ferguson, SHRM-CP, is both a motorsports fan and the CHRO at NASCAR. In this episode of People and Strategy, he joins host Tony Lee to reflect on the intersection between NASCAR’s 75th anniversary as a sport, and his “always forward” approach to talent acquisition and retention by expanding employee representation and development at the organization.
This episode of People and Strategy is sponsored by ADP.
Speaker 1:
Business success requires thinking beyond today. That's why ADP uses data-driven insights to design HR solutions to help your business have more success tomorrow. ADP always designing for HR talent, time, benefits, payroll, and people.
Tony Lee:
Welcome to today's People and Strategy podcast. I'm Tony Lee, vice president of Content for the Society for Human Resource Management, and the SHRM Executive Network, which is the premier network of executives and thought leaders in the field of human resources. I'm excited to speak today with John Ferguson, CHRO of NASCAR in Daytona Beach, Florida. John joined NASCAR in 2021 after a nine-year career in Washington DC with Monumental Sports & Entertainment where he served as VP of people and culture for six professional sports teams, four venues and more than 2,500 employees. John, welcome to the People and Strategy podcast.
John Ferguson:
Ah, thank you Tony. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm excited to engage in a rich dialogue with you, but once again, just thank you for the opportunity to join.
Tony Lee:
Yes, thank you. So let's dive in. After starting your career in the hospitality industry, you've now spent 11 years working in professional sports. So what attracted you to this industry?
John Ferguson:
Great question, Tony. Let me be honest with you. I fell into sports and in some ways I fell into HR. When I finished my undergraduate degree, I was a poli sci major, so I had all the intentions of working on Capitol Hill, but that sort of shifted and I thought about what were those transferable skills, and that sort of led me to an opportunity in HR for Hyatt. And then from there I really never looked back, but when I sort of explored what would be next after Hyatt, I was just focused on finding another HR opportunity.
And little did I know that Monumental Sports would be that next role, but what attracted me to a role, but initially was just the opportunity to grow as a HR professional. But I also think that that speaks to the richness of being an HR professional and just doing this function of work because every organization, every industry has an HR team, and so it gives you a lot of variety as you continue to look to roll your career. But honestly, I saw HR manager job for a company, and I'll be honest here, I wasn't even sure probably candidly what Monumental Sports & Entertainment was other than sports entertainment. But as I was preparing for that interview, I realized it was pretty exciting and cool and I just haven't turned away since.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. So you've spent a lot of your career focusing on improving diversity inclusion and belonging at the organizations where you've worked. How are you now incorporating that into the HR strategy at NASCAR?
John Ferguson:
So here at NASCAR, one thing that I'm super excited and passionate about, I'll start off with saying we're celebrating our 75th season of the sport, which is a big milestone for us. And one of our motto for the 75th season is, hashtag always forward. And I think that really speaks to the direction of NASCAR and one of the reasons why I'm really proud to represent and be a part of this story. I think the first step for us in our HR strategy is that we have to be intentional with meeting our employees and our future employees where they are. So that means that we're going to different places that we want to make sure that NASCAR shows up in different ways than you may expect us to, because that's really the model for us going forward. Again, always forward.
So we want to be intentional with that. We want to make sure that we are building healthy pipelines, but also healthy partnerships across our ecosystem. I think one of the opportunities that we have here, is to really focus on our employment brand and make sure that people know the story that we're telling. I think that when you look at any organization that has such long and rich history as ours, that means that it has had various turns and pivots and roundabouts. But with that, we want to make sure that people know what we're going today.
So some of the things I'll highlight here is we have a big focus on our learning and development, and that's making sure that we're giving our employees the proper tools that they continue to grow and engage with us, but also making sure we're providing the proper tools that attract talent to want to join our organization. I'm a big believer that organizations where I'm have the opportunity to a add value and contribute that we are not only a great place to work, but a great place to be from. And I think that really speaks to, as you look at the growing demographics in the workplace from a generational perspective, understanding that from the baby boomers down to millennials, and then when you look at Gen Z, the idea of long tenure is shifting.
So we want you to be here and enjoy the time where you're here, but we also hope that if you make the decision to pivot and take your skillset to another shop that we were also a great place to be from. So that's really making sure that we give our employees skills and abilities that help them increase their toolkit that while they're here, we will benefit from that, but even when they decide that they're ready for the next step, that they can continue to reflect back on the time at NASCAR as being a contributor to that process, and then hopefully we may even welcome them back down the road.
Another piece is that we really have poured into our employee resource groups. We have four here, and they're really becoming good business partners to help us execute a lot of the things that we want to do when it comes to increasing our talent pipeline. We have a Women's ERG, we have a Black and African-American employee ERG, a Hispanic ERG and a Pride+ ERG, and that's for our LGBTQ+ colleagues and their allies. And so when we look at that, we want to make sure that when we show up in these spaces that we're showing up in an authentic way to us. And so when we're going to career fairs or doing conferences, if it's for one of those target demographics, we want to make sure that we bring our colleague that are reflected in that demographic as well so that when you walk up to that table, you can see a reflection of yourself represented at NASCAR. So I think that's very important.
And then another piece is our NASCAR Diversity internship program. It's been around for a little over 20 years. I think some people are unaware of that, but that's an exciting history that we have there. And this is a program designed to allow people who may not be native to motorsports or native to NASCAR to come in and see firsthand what it's like, become lifelong fans, but even have the opportunity to grow their career with NASCAR. And then most recently we launched our first career lab with Bethune-Cookman which is a local HBCU, historically Black college and university located here in Daytona Beach, Florida. And so with that partnership, we're going to offer a sort of cohort style learning experience where there will be a speaker series, a on-campus marketing activation, a case study, and then a tons of career readiness and preparation for them. So we're super excited. We just launched that this past year at the Daytona 500 where we did the announcement. We're currently accepting applications for that program at Bethune-Cookman, and we will launch our first cohort in the fall semester.
So I think to back to where I started is you have to be intentional and I want to make sure that we continue to show up in ways and in spaces that you may or may not expect NASCAR to show up, but also to make sure that we're able to showcase the people behind the scenes helping to move this industry forward.
Tony Lee:
Wow, that's a very robust programs that you've got going. I want to follow back up on one thing you've said, which was talking about the realism that there are employees who will say, I'm ready to make my move and perhaps I'll move somewhere else, which means that engagement becomes so important. And as you know, there has really been a widespread decline in employee engagement, which includes both a higher number of resignations and quiet quitting, sadly. So do you think this trend is here to stay? And if so, what should HR do to respond?
John Ferguson:
I don't think this trend is here to stay. I think we're already seeing that pendulum swing back and forth. I think at one point it was definitely going in one direction where we're starting to see that sort of return swing at the current moment. You just think about what we've seen recently, big tech companies have recently had some layoffs. And so I think the potential or the one direction was there's a lot of autonomy and sort of power in the employee stake that was in the ground and rightfully so because I think all of that was a buildup and an outcome of the global pandemic. We experienced something that none of us will probably experience again in our lifetime, an event that we probably could look at history and they comes around every a hundred or so years. But I think we're still responding to that if I think we're still trying to find our balance in that space, and as we continue to find our balance, I think we will get closer to our equilibrium. I'm not sure what that equilibrium will look like, but I don't think that the sort of number of resignations and quiet quitting and decline in employee engagement, it is a permanent thing. I think we're just trying to figure out what will be the thing of tomorrow.
Tony Lee:
Yeah.
John Ferguson:
And so it's interesting because I ultimately believe that when we were in the pandemic, and it's hard for me to say that we're out of it because I don't think we are. I think it's just something we're going to live with. We were all grieving, and when you grieve, you get quiet and you sit still and you reflect on what's important to you. And so I think what we're seeing now is some of the outcomes of those initial reactions, but we all know that we still have to find ways to be able to provide and support our families and care for our loved ones. So with that, there may be a shift in how, where we do that and what those priorities are, but I think ultimately we'll find our equilibrium. It just may look a little different.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. And another result of the pandemic, of course, was the dramatic rise in remote work. And now even with employees coming back to physical offices, you've got a fair share of employees, especially Gen Z for example, younger millennials too who say I'm not going back. So where do you think remote work sits? Is hybrid the answer? What are you seeing there?
John Ferguson:
So I think my first response to is hybrid the answer is potentially, I think it has a lot of variances and nuances that have to be considered, depends on the industry, it depends on the function, but I think hybrid is an opportunity to meet employees where they are. And I think the biggest thing that people are desiring from my just perspective is the autonomy to do the work and not necessarily from nine to five. So I think some of that has to go back into we've had this way of doing work for the past 100 years and to look at how we've been measuring the value-add in that process and I think some of that has been tied to the ability to see people doing it. And I think the big switch we need to flip is while we may or may not see someone physically doing it because they may be remote, hybrid, or possibly in the office, we really should focus on the outcomes that are being presented and the deliverables and goals being met or not met.
The other thing, I think my data sources tell me a little bit differently about Gen Z though. I don't know if they're as hard coded as we may believe to not want to come into the office. I think they value autonomy, but they are also one of the first generations that will see, and I would say emerging talent that experienced the pandemic. Not that we all didn't, but they weren't necessarily all in the workforce. So we'll see how that has impacted them, because many of them missed graduations, they missed prom, they missed many key and pivotal social moments. So I think they may have a natural sort of thirst and desire, some early date I'm seeing in some research is they may be open to coming to the office because they desire that social connection. Now that's not saying that they want to come in five days a week, but I think they may be more open to it than we may anticipate because they missed so many pivotal social moments due to the impact that the global pandemic had on their educational experience.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, no, I mean that's a great point. I mean, we are also seeing research that says that for Gen Z especially, they don't feel like they're getting the same career opportunities and opportunities for advancement if they're not in the office and they don't get the visibility. So that's part of it too, I guess, right?
John Ferguson:
Yeah, actually, I'm glad you said that. I think if there's any Gen Z that's listening to this or parent of a Gen Z, I think the opportunity for them to get what I would possibly call a hot streak in their career would be to leverage those moments to go into the office because it would allow them proximity and FaceTime with leaders that I think is valuable, but would allow them to stand out. And I think it would allow them to excel. Because when you think about who you want to put on this project team, you reflect on, "Hey, I just saw John walk down the hallway, I see him here a couple days a week. I've had some good water cooler conversations." It goes back to that and I think some of that is easier to establish that rapport in person.
And it's not saying that it can't be done remotely, but I think if you want to figure out a way to create a competitive advantage for yourself as an individual contributor, I would lean into that ability to go into the office and be in some of those in-person meetings because essentially you are allowing yourself and the person you're engaging with to lower the waterline on each other and build a deeper connection and rapport. But for the emerging talent, it allowed them to have greater visibility. And I think if you're going to try to do that remotely, you can, but there could be greater barriers to it.
Tony Lee:
Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's interesting because tangential to that, we've heard a lot of CEOs and C-suite executives talking about employee mental health as a result, not just to the pandemic, but also of having to be remote maybe when you don't want to be remote or having to come into the office if you'd rather be remote. Do you think HR is doing enough to address employee mental health issues? Do you think there's more needed?
John Ferguson:
I think we can always do more. I think with many things we could always be doing more, but I think there has been a great focus and emphasis on wellbeing and mental health, especially coming out of the pandemic because I go back to that state of us grieving. Some of us hit breaking points too. It's like, "I need help. I can't do this by myself." And I think the global pandemic made that not so much of a one-off, well, hey, that's just that person. No, we were all experiencing something different. And what we were grieving was the sense of normalcy that we've all become accustomed to knowing. And so in that moment, there's greater empathy and understanding that not only am I struggling, but a lot of people are. And so I think that removes some of the stigma that may have been associated with it in previous years or generations. And so I think we can always be doing more and it's a journey, but I think the biggest opportunity here is to make sure we're providing resources and tools that allow our employees to engage with them, add they see best for them.
Tony Lee:
Yep, makes perfect sense. There's another aspect of this that I want to ask you about, which is, and something that I think doesn't get quite as much attention, which is the need of employees to be caregivers, whether it's caregivers to their children, which we often hear about or caregivers to their parents or other relatives or frankly anyone that is reliant upon them and employer's ability to be flexible. And it kind of all comes back to workplace flexibility. What's the role of HR there, in terms of making the workplace as accepting as possible to people who have caregiving responsibilities?
John Ferguson:
I think it's a level of providing resources, being open to flexible arrangements, schedules, but I think it really bottom-lines with just grace and empathy. Understand your people and do what you can to meet them where they are. Because if the shift of someone coming in 30 minutes early so they can head out 30 minutes early because they need to pick up or do X, Y, and Z, 9 times out of 10, that's not going to have a dramatic impact on the business, but it's a matter of having that level of transparency, relation and relationship between employees and managers so that those types of things and topics can surface. Because you may have an employee who just won't bring that up, but then you may see that it's impacting them in other ways. And so having that ability to have that sort of open and transparent dialogue, I think is one of the greatest tools that we can all continue to nurture.
Tony Lee:
That makes sense. So as a CHRO, what's on the horizon? What are you most concerned about? What are you spending time thinking about in terms of what's coming next?
John Ferguson:
For me, I think really it goes back to an earlier point that I sort of discussed, and it's the shifting demographics in the workplace When you think about the generations and how they show up, because data says that baby boomers are staying in company toward 10 to 15 years, and then you had Gen X staying I think five to 10. And then you have millennials at two to five and early data on Gen Z is showing either similar to millennials or shorter. And so I really think about how are we going to develop our retention strategy? What I think originally it's like, you want people to stay forever, but I think we have to figure out, okay, understand that people will and may not stay forever, and that's okay, but how can we continue to build healthy pipelines to support our organization and our competitive advantage, but also know that they may go on to work for another organization. So essentially we kind of share in that retention mechanism. It's the retention of keeping everyone in the workforce, but understanding who they work for that transaction may happen at a faster pace. So I just really think about how do we prepare for that because I think that's going to be very different than what we have become accustomed to.
Tony Lee:
Yeah. Well, John, before I let you go, can't not ask you the question that sports fans would want to know, which is you spent a lot of years working in the sports industry, now you got a favorite team? You got a favorite sport?
John Ferguson:
Oh, my favorite sport is motorsport, come on, I love NASCAR.
Tony Lee:
Of course.
John Ferguson:
Yeah.
Tony Lee:
Silly question.
John Ferguson:
Yeah, favorite sport is NASCAR. And I will say I am somewhat new to the sport, but I'll tell you this, once you come here and you see your first NASCAR race, I really think the in-person experience is unparalleled. You get to hear the engines roar, the smell of burning rubber, and just the excitement of the momentum and the speed. It though that motto of our 75th season of hashtag always forward it really captures that. My favorite, favorite, I have a lot of favorite drivers, and so I'm really excited to be in the sport and I encourage everyone listening, if you haven't checked out a NASCAR race, please check out one. Happy to connect with you on LinkedIn to discuss further, but NASCAR is a growing sport and we're really excited about some of the work and the impact that we're doing here.
Tony Lee:
That's great. Well, John, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today. You can follow the People and Strategy podcast wherever you listen to your podcast, and you can learn more about the SHRM Executive Network at shrm.org/executive. Also, listener reviews have a real impact on a podcast visibility. So if you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to leave a review and help others find the show. Finally, you can find all of our episodes on our website at shrm.org/podcast. Thanks for listening and have a great day.
Speaker 1:
Business success requires thinking beyond today. That's why ADP uses data-driven insights to design HR solutions to help your business have more success tomorrow. ADP always designing for HR talent, time benefits, payroll, and people.